So we don’t agree

So way back in April I posted a few videos I’d stumbled across on YouTube from Aztec Dog Training, and how I really really didn’t agree with their training methods.

I got a comment today from the trainer. A lawyer was mentioned, and even though they said they wouldn’t involve them, I’m documenting everything just to be safe! Also, to read the hilarious comments regarding mental illness, scroll to the bottom – beware, the comments I received are very offensive to those with mental health issues. Their views are outdated and embarrassing. Read at your own discretion 🙂

The comment:

ITS EASY FOR YOU TO CRITICIZE SOMEONE ELSES METHODS BUT FOR 1 THING THERE IS A PROBLEM USING FOOD TO BRIBE A DOG TO DO OBEDIENCE – HE DOESNT RECOGNIZE THE OWNER AS LEADER AND PERHAPS I SHOULD AND WILL CLARIFY THAT IN THE FUTURE – ANOTHER IS THE VIDEOS – HOW CAN YOU JUDGE HOW A DOG IS DOING WHEN YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHY HE WAS BROUGHT IN AND HOW DESPERATE THE OWNERS AND LOST THEY WERE BECAUSE MOST DOGS I GET HAVE BITTEN SEVERAL PEOPLE OR ATTACKED SEVERAL DOGS AND ARE READY TO BE PUT DOWN. YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT MY METHODS AND YOU ARE RIGHT – I DONT GIVE ALOT AWAY – I COULD EXPLAIN MY DETAILS OF WHY I DONR USE A KENNEL AND USE A HOMELIKE SETTING BUT I DO NOT FEEL THREATENED YOU OR YOUR COMMENTS – YOU ARE IGNORANT FOR JUDGING SOMEONE WITHOUT FULLY RESEARCHING THEM OR EVEN CALLING AND ASKING ABOUT THEIR TRAINING OR METHODS – I DO NOT SHOW MY POSITIVE METHODS, OR ANYTHING THAT OTHER TRAINERS MIGHT STEAL – I HAVE LEARNED TRAINERS STEAL ALL THEY CAN DUE TO A LACK OF PROPER EDUCATION – SO ALL MY VIDEOS ARE THE SAME – DOGS IN TRAINING – NOT FINISHED AND PERFECT – THATS A LIE DOG TRAINERS SELL – KNOWING THE BASIC COMMANDS IS NOT OBEDIENCE TRAINING, BUILDING A BETTER RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN DOG AND DOG OWNER IS AND I HAVE HUNDREDS OF VERY HAPPY AND SATISFIED CUSTOMERS OUT THERE THAT HAD TRIED MANY TRAINERS TO HELP THEM ONLY TO BE TAKEN FOR THEIR MONEY AND NO RESULTS – CALL ME AND I WILL GIVE YOU AS MANY REFERRALS AS YOU NEED – YOU LIKE TO USE SHOCK VALUE TO GET ATTENTION – YOU ARE A JOKE IN MY OPINION – YOU SHOULD BE CAREFUL THE WAY YOU SLANDER PEOPLE TOO – IF I FELT THREATENED BY YOU MY LAWYER WOULD BE ON THIS – BUT THE THING IS I DON’T – WE DO WELL AND I SAVE A LOT OF DOG’S LIVES – WE GET THE WORST OF THE WORST – PERHAPS I WAS PUSHING THAT DOG INTO A SIT BECAUSE TOYS FAILED OFF CAMERA OR USING FOOD AS A LURE FAILED OFF CAMERA – YOU DON’T KNOW AND YOU WILL NEVER KNOW MY SECRETS – BEWARE OF PEOPLE LIKE THIS THAT SLAM PEOPLE FOR SHOCK VALUE NOT EVEN UNDERSTANDING WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT

And I have italicized my response below:

Okay, I’m gonna break your comment into quotes and add my input below.

FOR 1 THING THERE IS A PROBLEM USING FOOD TO BRIBE A DOG TO DO OBEDIENCE

Firstly, using food as a reward for a dog when done properly is not bribery. Read more here: Why Positive Training Is Not Bribery

HE DOESNT RECOGNIZE THE OWNER AS LEADER

Check out some of my other posts, I don’t believe in the whole pack leader / dominance theory stuff. There are plenty of reasons why, and in some of my posts I share links to trainers and behaviourists far more knowledgable than me.

MOST DOGS I GET HAVE BITTEN SEVERAL PEOPLE OR ATTACKED SEVERAL DOGS AND ARE READY TO BE PUT DOWN

Even (or especially) with a dog that has severe behavioural problems, I will never understand why punishments / corrections such as collar yanks and yelling are needed. I’ve trained several dogs who have acted aggressively and bitten, yet my methods have been gentle and positive. I worked with a Staffy who was extremely fearful, and he had bitten lots of people…I didn’t scare or intimidate him once.

I HAVE HUNDREDS OF VERY HAPPY AND SATISFIED CUSTOMERS

People can get results using aversives, we all know this…that’s why back before we knew better most people relied so heavily on them. Dog pulling on lead? Stick a prong collar and tug on it. Dog growling? Give it a yell and a yank. However it’s been shown that problems arise with this sort of training, and using positive methods is more effective – and much nicer for the dog.

Extra reading here, which also talks about dominance and pack theory. And also this from the highly respected Jean Donaldson – interesting quote from the last article which makes me think of Cesar Millan and even the Beagle video from the original blog I posted: ‘The force-free movement gains momentum every year and a sure sign of this is that many trainers in the other camps resort to murkier and murkier euphemisms to disguise their more violent practices and retain their market share. Stressed dogs aren’t “shut down,” they’re “calm.”‘ 

CALL ME AND I WILL GIVE YOU AS MANY REFERRALS AS YOU NEED

But almost anyone can get good referrals. Owners who believe that dogs need to be dominated are going to be drawn to trainers who think the same thing, and will therefore think very highly of them. One of the vets we used with our dog came highly recommended from every dog owner I spoke to, yet we hated him.

YOU ARE IGNORANT, YOU ARE A JOKE,  BEWARE OF PEOPLE LIKE THIS

So…I need to be careful about slander, but you can say that I am a joke, and ignorant? We’re both just doing the same thing – sharing our opinion. A lot of dog trainers have differing opinions, and I am never going to agree with someone who violently pulls at the dog’s collars and believes they must be the ‘pack leader’.

PERHAPS I WAS PUSHING THAT DOG INTO A SIT BECAUSE TOYS FAILED OFF CAMERA OR USING FOOD AS A LURE FAILED OFF CAMERA

Then you haven’t found the right reinforcement for the dog. You most likely know that what one dog finds awesome, another dog might not care about…every dog has something they enjoy above all else. Could be food (ranging from kibble to real meat), balls, tug ropes, tissues, ear scritches, a game of chase…find whatever it is, and use it. I see no need to push a dog into a sit.

YOU DON’T KNOW AND YOU WILL NEVER KNOW MY SECRETS

Finally, you criticise me a few times for not knowing or understanding your methods, but how can I if you keep them all a secret?

There, that is my reply. I didn’t like their training methods, and I still don’t. I would never use those methods myself, and I certainly would not send one of my dogs to a facility that used them. I don’t agree with them, and I never will.

Just like how many people consider positive reinforcement “weak” or “permissive”, I consider punishment and intimidation to be gross. You’re never going to get everybody to agree with dog training methods.

Ha and I just got these wonderful comments from two supposed clients of Aztec Dog Training. Interestingly one comment is from someone who calls themselves ‘mel’, whereas the second is from ‘melMIKE SMITH’:

this expl;wins a lot about you and your crazy blog – you have no idea what you are talking about and are strictly trying to harass people and give your pain and confusion away – someday you will end up in court or in jail good luck1
 
And the second:
I just read your personal profile – that explains a lot – I knew you must be mentally ill because to track someone such as this guy – you must be – you may not understand what he is doing and you shouldn’t – because he is a professional saving dogs lives – how many have you saved and what makes you an expert by watv=ching 2 – 4 minutes of an hour video – he takes small snippets out to show people the worst case scenario of what to do if no other standard methods work – you are an idiot – i KNOW BECAUSE HE HAS TRAINED 3 OF OUR DOGS AND WE WATCHED IT ALL AND THEY WE RESCUES DOOMED TO BE PUT DOWN – ONE WAS THE BEAGLE YOU SAID WAS SCARED – THAT BEAGLE KILLED A DOG AND HURT MANY MORE- IT WAS DOOMED – NOW THAT BEAGLE – 5 YRS LATER HAS NEVER HARMED ANOTHER DOG THANKS TO RON – TAKE YOUR BULL AND STICK IT!
 
How many dogs have I saved? I don’t know, I don’t count. Do I work with dogs, including those in rescue? Yes.
And uh, yeah, I have Bipolar Disorder, so what? Nothing to be ashamed of, plenty of amazing people have mental illnesses…sorry buddy 🙂
 –
I have not approved the last two comments, but they are recorded on my wordpress account.
Funnily enough every comment I received came from the same IP address.
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10 thoughts on “So we don’t agree

    • It’s always worth keeping a record of these things. WordPress is pretty good in that it logs all comments on here and they go to my email too – handy! 🙂

  1. This guy’s writing is unbelievably muddled and aggressive. If “The style is the man himself”, as Georges-Louis Leclerc, Comte de Buffon said, then this might be true of his methods, too. I think the best thing is to leave him alone.

  2. I would argue that someone who needs to create several fake people to back up their (quite frankly, pathetic) argument is the one who isn’t 100% mentally all there!

    Typical ignorant ranting response from an ignorant little man – just ignore him, do what you do, and their methods and techniques will continue to die out as people recognise there are better ones out there. He’s a dinosaur clinging to the past.

  3. I agree with what Neil said. I used to comment on a lot of pages and videos where aversive methods were used but I don’t bother anymore. They are never going to change their ways because of comments. I have decided to keep doing what I’m doing and let my happy, well-mannered dog and my former students speak for positive reinforcement and force-free training methods. Showing it works is more effective than telling. People are becoming more aware of the “modern” way to train and hopefully the old methods will become extinct.

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